[IPAC-List] Distance Learning/Facetiming Assessors

Fri Oct 31 16:52:38 EDT 2014

Dennis and Richard,

That would have been Rod Freudenberg of the LA County Office of
Education, on 3/10/11.  

Chris Gist, Sacramento. 

From: IPAC-List [mailto:ipac-list-bounces at ipacweb.org] On Behalf Of
Dennis Doverspike
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 1:38 PM
To: Richard R. Carter
Cc: 'IPAC-List' (ipac-list at ipacweb.org)
Subject: Re: [IPAC-List] Distance Learning/Facetiming Assessors

I presented at a PTC-Northern California meeting where one of the other
presenters did a major workshop session on the topic of videotaping for
later rating. As Liz Reed suggested, it is probably a great idea in
theory, but takes a lot of money and answering a great deal of technical
challenges to do in practice. I am not sure of the name of the
presenter, but my understanding was that the State of California had a
major initiative going where they were taping orals and interviews for
technical jobs for later rating. I do remember it was an excellent
workshop and I was impressed by the thought that had gone into their
approach. Perhaps someone can supply the name of a contact person or
even the presenter for the State of California. 

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Richard R. Carter <rrcarter at nola.gov>
wrote:

Thanks to all for all of the thoughtful insights.  This is the right
forum for great ideas and resources.  We are still gathering information
and, clearly, caution is warranted in such matters.  I'll report back if
there are more developments down here. 

Rick Carter

Personnel Administrator - Test Development & Validation

New Orleans Civil Service

From: IPAC-List [mailto:ipac-list-bounces at ipacweb.org] On Behalf Of
Blair, Michael [HR]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 1:05 PM
To: 'IPAC-List' (ipac-list at ipacweb.org)

Subject: Re: [IPAC-List] Distance Learning/Facetiming Assessors

Excellent dialogue.  Our listserv remains viable when most others have
gradually dies because of discussions such as this.

Rick - thanks for posing this question!  I suggest contacting Brian
Bellenger or Jeff Crenshaw at the Personnel Board of Jefferson County,
Alabama.  If memory serves me right, they both have experience
administering remote assessor scoring using a video-tape model similar
to that described by Liz.

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From: IPAC-List [mailto:ipac-list-bounces at ipacweb.org] On Behalf Of
Reed, Elizabeth
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 11:15 AM
To: 'IPAC-List' (ipac-list at ipacweb.org)
Subject: Re: [IPAC-List] Distance Learning/Facetiming Assessors

Interesting topic. I've been involved with police and fire promotional
processes for 20 years and we bring in assessors from all over the
nation for these exams. While it is costly, the costs pale in comparison
to the benefits of selecting the most competent future leaders in safety
sensitive positions. I believe that we have great police and fire
divisions because we are selecting the right leaders-outside assessors
play an integral part in this selection process. 

It's technically feasible to accomplish virtual assessments. However, we
can't underestimate the reality of not pulling raters together in
person. 

Let's diagram what this might look like with a few basic assumptions:
Assume you need 6 assessors for a week to grade video recorded oral
responses. Assume the assessors have volunteered a week of their time,
while still being paid by their own organization.  Assessor training
needs to occur prior to the assessment. Here are the concerns that may
not be easily remedied:

*        People are distracted during virtual training; it's difficult
to keep them focused on the topic and involved in discussion.

*        Test security is at greater risk. Who else can access the test
materials while in the hands of assessors in the various jurisdictions?
Printed materials, people walking into the room during training, etc.,
and assuring materials are not copied or recorded are all risk factors.

*        During grading, will you have "boards" continue to discuss
their ratings? If not, how will you ensure consistency and accuracy in
the ratings? If yes, are you prepared to handle the additional
logistical demands of monitoring of the process?

*        Assessor engagement during grading. The fact is they are being
paid by their own jurisdiction, if something comes up and they are in
the next room they are much more likely to be called away to work on the
issue. 

*        Will you continue to get the assessors you need? What's in it
for them? When they come to the city they network, they ask other
professionals how they handle situations they are currently struggling
with. They have the opportunity to see a different city and how their
operations work. There is a definite gain for agencies who send
personnel to assess in other jurisdictions.

As a previous responder eluded to, if you have assessors who are being
paid by a testing agency to conduct and grade the assessment, then you
can overcome most of the issues that I listed above. If that's the route
you go, I'd recommend asking pointed questions regarding rater training,
consensus building, how test security is handled, re-use of test
exercises, are the exercises interactive, rotation of assessors, and
costs.  About rotation of assessors, our unions prefer not using the
same set of assessors each time we assess to avoid the perception of
assessors identifying people they like a continuing to "promote" them
through the ranks. 

Food for thought. Good luck!

Liz

Elizabeth A. Reed

Public Safety Assessment Team Manager

Columbus Civil Service Commission

______________________________

Direct: 614.645.6032

http://www.columbus.gov/

From: IPAC-List [mailto:ipac-list-bounces at ipacweb.org] On Behalf Of
Reindl, Kevin
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 7:14 PM
To: Richard R. Carter; 'IPAC-List' (ipac-list at ipacweb.org)
Subject: Re: [IPAC-List] Distance Learning/Facetiming Assessors

Hi Rick! 

I like the use of technology in assessments...in fact, without
technology, assessment would quickly become extinct in today's world.
However, as one of your former coworkers (as well as one of your
volunteer assessors later on), the value I gained (besides a chance to
travel to New Orleans), was the opportunity to network with others in
the public sector doing similar work in other jurisdictions. You should
not underestimate the value that your assessors get out of making
connections on a personal and professional level with one another. In
all honesty, it may be very difficult to get that level of participation
from other jurisdictions if you take away those less tangible benefits.
I attend a couple of small consortium meetings in person every year, and
from time to time, we talk about doing it virtually to minimize the
travel costs. However, we continue to meet in person year after year for
these same reasons.

First thing I would do is send out a quick survey to your past
participants to gauge their attitudes/opinions...i.e., ask them directly
whether they would volunteer if it meant no travel and no in-person
networking. If costs MUST be cut, you may need to make the change, but
you may also end up with other costs down the road if you cannot get
assessors (e.g., outsourcing to paid professional assessors)

Good luck my friend!

Kevin Reindl

Pacific Gas & Electric

Human Resources

HR Strategy & Organizational Effectiveness

245 Market Street, N2J

San Francisco, CA 94105

Office: 415-973-7013

Mobile: 619-322-3368

k1rq at pge.com

From: IPAC-List [mailto:ipac-list-bounces at ipacweb.org] On Behalf Of
Richard R. Carter
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 3:28 PM
To: 'IPAC-List' (ipac-list at ipacweb.org)
Subject: [IPAC-List] Distance Learning/Facetiming Assessors

I have a few of questions for the collective wisdom of this group.

We in New Orleans, like many jurisdictions, currently fly in volunteer
police and fire professionals to score assessment center exercises.
This testing plays a large role in determining promotions in NOPD and
NOFD.  We work folks hard for a week and pick up the tab for the hotel,
airfare and incidentals.   

The Chief of our Fire Department would like for us to explore using
technology to control costs.  Specifically, his suggestion to avoid the
hotel and airfare expenses by having assessors interact only through
technology (go to meeting, skype, facetime, something along those
lines). 

First, is anyone else currently doing anything like this?  If so, what
issues or concerns were faced? Even if you don't currently do this, feel
free to opine with potential issues that those considering this choice
may face.

Also, what sort of cooperation should be expected from other
jurisdictions should we go down this path?  

That is, would folks volunteer to stay where they are and work for us
for a week? 

TIA

Rick Carter

Personnel Administrator - Test Development & Validation

New Orleans Civil Service

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