[IPAC-List] Indemnify and Hold Harmless Insurance Policies?

Gene Carmean GCarmean at med-tox.com
Thu Oct 2 15:05:25 EDT 2014

At 10:35 PM 9/29/2014, you wrote:

The problem is that far too many HR departments turn the RFP process 
over to the clerks in the purchasing department who don't know any 
better.  (I am sure that no one who subscribes to the list would make 
the same kind of mistake as this!).

And this particular error is just one of long list of aggravations 
that come from purchasing departments.  Among the many others:

1. Charging consultants to read RFPs.  Are you serious purchasing 
departments?  Yes you Arizona!

2. Title RFPs in such a way as to conceal the nature of the RFP.  The 
typical examples are Consultant Services, Professional Services, 
Study, Training Services, Writing Services, Medical Services, and so forth.

Why would a purchasing department think anyone has the time to 
determine what these terms could possibly mean?

3. Throw in some artificial barriers to ensure your pre-selected 
friend is the only one who can qualify.  Thus, a State issues an RFP 
that can only be responded to by a Ph.D. psychologist who has years 
of experience in job analysis and testing hearing-impaired persons in 
jobs related to public safety work.  Audiologists and   university 
experts need not apply.

Or, more typically, unless a person is a certified physical 
therapist, they will not be considered qualified to validate a 
physical ability test.  Of course, physical therapists are uniquely 
unqualified to perform this activity, but no matter.

4. Demanding that all the proprietary tools, methods and techniques 
you utilize in performing the contract, become the property of the 
organization for whom you have provided the service.

5. Turning over the writing of the RFP to a clerk who does not know 
much about the service be asked for.  Determining what the writer 
means can sometimes be impossible.

These are some of my gripes about this process.  Alas, there is 
probably no solution. Grrrrr

Gene Carmean


>Indemnify and Hold Harmless Insurance Policies?

I'm just curious to find out if anyone knows of an insurance company 
that has ever paid a government agency's legal bill when a 
consultant's test was rented and used by the government agency, but 
challenged by one or more candidates?

I've seen a few purchase orders lately that are actually purchase 
contracts with fine print on the flip side which says that the 
consultant agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the agency, it's 
officers, etc., etc., and this apparently means that if a candidate 
or group of candidates challenges the consultant's test, then the 
consultant's insurance policy must pay for the legal defense and all 
expert fees that result from the challenge.  Is there such an 
insurance policy available to testing consultants?

I've seen several of these purchase orders/purchase contracts but 
have not been willing to do business under these 
circumstances.  Wasn't it Griggs v. Duke Power where the U.S. Supreme 
Court told the Duke Power company that it was their responsibility 
and they couldn't off-load the liability onto the Wonderlic 
Corporation (who published the test in question, the Wonderlic Personnel Test)?

My attitude has been no way, I won't take that liability and I don't 
think there is any insurance policy that will pay up.  I had an 
errors and omissions policy when I used to belong to A.P.A., but 
after awhile, I thought it was probably useless in the employment 
context, and I stopped paying for this policy, and later I quit 
APA!  I guess I'm just getting too old to see the benefits of trying 
to please the Risk Manager crowd, but I would love to hear other 
opinions, views, and any interesting experiences.

Richard Joines, President
Management & Personnel Systems, Inc.

Gene Carmean
MED-TOX Health Services
3350 Shelby Street, Ste. 200
Ontario, California 91764

909 944 3181 Tel


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